If you're gonna go by ERA+ you should point out that Mussina was always a starter, while Smoltz spent a good amount of years as a reliever, who of course tend to have lower ERA, therefore a higher ERA+.
Wow, this didn't age well for Russo. If you went with his standard over the past 5 years no body is getting in ever. SMH. The Hall needs people. Without New Inductees it fails to serve a purpose. The worst thing about the Hall of Fame to me is when they have a year where they vote and not 1 player gets inducted. Everyone has grow old waiting for the obvious to work it's way out over a decade. Come on man hurry up and stop dragging your feet. Some years I feel like 10 people should get into the hall of fame at once. Why people half of them should of been voted in already in previous years and it greats backlog.
I'm tired of people giving the HOF voters so much credit. I feel like there are some who look at the names and spend 10 seconds on it every year based on their "gut check" That's why it takes some players 10 years of slow and painful experience of climbing up in % each year. We see players who had 20% one year get in with over 75%. That means 50% of the people are terrible at doing their jobs and were not able to figure it out in year one. If they spent days analyzing each player we would have a shorter list and we could get people in when they're still alive to enjoy it. Life is short so lets give it the attention it deserves so people don't waste 10 years in misery / limbo when they should of gotten in all along. If voters don't want to spend their time doing a good job and think its funny how they all flip in year 10 after rejecting them for many years in a row. Then please remove yourself as a voter because you're not like nor appreciated by this fan. I see voters do this malarkey of rejecting Schilling and it's non-sense he was one of the most successful starting pitchers in his 20 years and should of gotten in within the first 5 at least. And they will be too ashamed not to vote him in year 10 because they know for a fact no matter what he's getting in it because he's legit and there is no denying it. Father Time will prove me right.
Mad Dog makes himself look bad when he says stuff like Marichal won 25 EVERY year. Yes, doing that three times is very impressive, but he didn't do it every year.
I actually agree w russo. Trammell and raines were not hofers. Neither was mussina. Martinez not playing any d is an issue too. I'd rather see the best players in there, not just pretty good players on up.
WAR is an important stat. But I would much rather have a guy hitting .320 with 25 HR and a 400 obp who is a mediocre fielder than someone hitting .300, 15 HR, and a 330 obp who is a great fielder during an important game.
i like the discussion and back and forth debate, what Russo understands that all these proponnents of stastics do not is all these fancy figures do not put buts in the seats, The fans come to see their team win, not to hear some overpaid analyst quote them a bunch of unendingly boring and to them useless stats.
Brian, how can you compare Tim Raines to Tony Gwynn?!! Dog is absolutely right!! You have to lead the league in something, you have to have been tops in some categories.
"The fans don't care about WAR." The fans voted for Fernando Tatis for the All-Star Team when he hadn't played a single game. (This was before the failed drug test.) That's why we don't let them vote on something even more important.
Mad Dog has said he judges players' HOF credentials by "black type" – leading the league in categories. Well, Tim Raines has led his league in runs (2), doubles (1), stolen bases (4), batting average (1) and OBP (1). How can you have been the best in your league in 5 different categories and not be a Hall of Famer? As for Mike Mussina, he had 270 wins, including 20 wins in his final season at age 39. He had 2,813 strikeouts and four 200-strikeout seasons. He has led the league in wins (1) shutouts (1) and W-L % (1). What's doggie thinking?
Dog is so overmatched, and like an ostrich with his head in the ground yelling trying to block out facts & objective methodology in favor of subjective outdated subjective eye test methods. Does he hear himself? Love him cuz hes funny but he’s so out of touch. Rolls his eyes at WAR! 😂 like its some silly stupid nonsense that doesn’t matter
Honestly curt schilling should be in the hall of fame you can’t keep him out because of things he said or the medias view on him if someone doesn’t vote for him because of his media views then they shouldn’t be voting
Dog is right, just saying. If you saw Raines play his whole career, you'd know that he is good but not HOF-good: but now that the Hall has been watered down some …..
47 Comments
Imagine trying to argue that Tim Raines isn't a deserving HoFer. The only knock against Tim Raines was that he wasn't Rickey Henderson.
I love how Kenny tries to bring in Barry Larkins HOF resume as proof of Alan Trammells candidacy, and Dogg just spits in back into his face
Tim Raines, come on now.
If you're gonna go by ERA+ you should point out that Mussina was always a starter, while Smoltz spent a good amount of years as a reliever, who of course tend to have lower ERA, therefore a higher ERA+.
Sees Bonds have 162 WAR
Bruh
There's no bigger mismatch than Brian Kenny vs. Chris Russo in a HOF debate. It's like a guy with a baseball PhD going against a kindergartener.
Please. Please. No more Brian Kenny.
Wow, this didn't age well for Russo. If you went with his standard over the past 5 years no body is getting in ever. SMH. The Hall needs people. Without New Inductees it fails to serve a purpose. The worst thing about the Hall of Fame to me is when they have a year where they vote and not 1 player gets inducted. Everyone has grow old waiting for the obvious to work it's way out over a decade. Come on man hurry up and stop dragging your feet. Some years I feel like 10 people should get into the hall of fame at once. Why people half of them should of been voted in already in previous years and it greats backlog.
I'm tired of people giving the HOF voters so much credit. I feel like there are some who look at the names and spend 10 seconds on it every year based on their "gut check" That's why it takes some players 10 years of slow and painful experience of climbing up in % each year. We see players who had 20% one year get in with over 75%. That means 50% of the people are terrible at doing their jobs and were not able to figure it out in year one. If they spent days analyzing each player we would have a shorter list and we could get people in when they're still alive to enjoy it. Life is short so lets give it the attention it deserves so people don't waste 10 years in misery / limbo when they should of gotten in all along. If voters don't want to spend their time doing a good job and think its funny how they all flip in year 10 after rejecting them for many years in a row. Then please remove yourself as a voter because you're not like nor appreciated by this fan. I see voters do this malarkey of rejecting Schilling and it's non-sense he was one of the most successful starting pitchers in his 20 years and should of gotten in within the first 5 at least. And they will be too ashamed not to vote him in year 10 because they know for a fact no matter what he's getting in it because he's legit and there is no denying it. Father Time will prove me right.
Mad Dog makes himself look bad when he says stuff like Marichal won 25 EVERY year. Yes, doing that three times is very impressive, but he didn't do it every year.
This video is like crack to me. Nothing is better than Baseball HOF debates
Just because you shout and interrupt doesn't make you right.
Brian Kenny is a clown
This is manufactured debate
I actually agree w russo. Trammell and raines were not hofers. Neither was mussina. Martinez not playing any d is an issue too. I'd rather see the best players in there, not just pretty good players on up.
Wow, this is crazy that they didn't consider WAR a commonly used stat just 6 years ago.
WAR is an important stat. But I would much rather have a guy hitting .320 with 25 HR and a 400 obp who is a mediocre fielder than someone hitting .300, 15 HR, and a 330 obp who is a great fielder during an important game.
I agree, Mussina was very good but not hall worthy.
larkin lfmao
I agree with pretty much every word Russo said. It's not the hall of very good.
This guy got so pissed when he mentioned WAR.
Anyone else notice how phlegmy Russo sounds at 7:59 when he says, "Hall of Famer?" 😂
Jim Palmer had 211 complete games.
i like the discussion and back and forth debate, what Russo understands that all these proponnents of stastics do not is all these fancy figures do not put buts in the seats, The fans come to see their team win, not to hear some overpaid analyst quote them a bunch of unendingly boring and to them useless stats.
Brian, how can you compare Tim Raines to Tony Gwynn?!! Dog is absolutely right!! You have to lead the league in something, you have to have been tops in some categories.
Wow Russo is dumb lol
"The fans don't care about WAR." The fans voted for Fernando Tatis for the All-Star Team when he hadn't played a single game. (This was before the failed drug test.) That's why we don't let them vote on something even more important.
Mad Dog has said he judges players' HOF credentials by "black type" – leading the league in categories. Well, Tim Raines has led his league in runs (2), doubles (1), stolen bases (4), batting average (1) and OBP (1). How can you have been the best in your league in 5 different categories and not be a Hall of Famer? As for Mike Mussina, he had 270 wins, including 20 wins in his final season at age 39. He had 2,813 strikeouts and four 200-strikeout seasons. He has led the league in wins (1) shutouts (1) and W-L % (1). What's doggie thinking?
Tim Raines does not stack up. Russo is right. I hope they don’t fire Russo for arguing with the fabulous Brian Kenny !
Russo is 100% correct here…WATCH THE GAMES!
That fact that Tim Raines ranks that high in career WAR shows you the problem with WAR
The Hall of Fame is a joke now thanks to dudes like Brian Kenny.
Mad dog is right
Dog knows baseball
The Hall only lets 1% of players in and they still do!
The baseball you watch plays a role.. I mean markets. Some guys can fly under the radar
Mad dog is a baseball genius man. Guy knows everything
Brian Kenny lost his credibility when he said mike trout should’ve been mvp over Miguel Cabrera in 2012 when miggy won the triple crown.
Dog is so overmatched, and like an ostrich with his head in the ground yelling trying to block out facts & objective methodology in favor of subjective outdated subjective eye test methods. Does he hear himself? Love him cuz hes funny but he’s so out of touch. Rolls his eyes at WAR! 😂 like its some silly stupid nonsense that doesn’t matter
Objective methodology watch the games 3:47
Honestly curt schilling should be in the hall of fame you can’t keep him out because of things he said or the medias view on him if someone doesn’t vote for him because of his media views then they shouldn’t be voting
I agree with russo.
Moose was my favorite pitcher n I didn't think he was a hof pitcher.
Curt wasn't a hofer but he was clutch just like Bernie Williams.
Rolen… edmonds… torii… Jimmy…. not are hofers.
I think andruw Jones is a hofer possibly
No HOF discussion has any relevance until Pete Rose is put in.
Brian Kenny is an idiot who can’t eyeball talent.
The future of the hall of fame is not looking good. It is going to get smaller and smaller
Russo is right
Hall of pretty darn good players
Dog is right, just saying. If you saw Raines play his whole career, you'd know that he is good but not HOF-good: but now that the Hall has been watered down some …..