🚴♂ Do you think the increasing popularity of gravel riding have anything to do with a growing fear of riding on roads? And if so, does more gravel riding somehow mean we’re admitting defeat to motorists? 👀
Dan makes a really good point about satnavs taking people on to roads which really aren't suitable for large cars. Quite often, these are people who don't have particularly good driving skills and are obviously spooked by being on a single track road.
I had a particularly noteworthy experience once when part of the M6 was closed, and drivers were using satnavs to avoid the city where I live. I found myself cycling back along a very narrow road (which is designated as part of the Lancashire Cycleway as it is normally almost devoid of other vehicles) with a huge queue of cars behind me. I would normally allow a single car to pass where the road occasionally widens, but on this occasion, I had to leave them to drive along behind me at 20mph for the two or so miles until I could turn off.
I noticed that Dan Lloyd started stumbling over his words after the cobbled together saddle from Hacks & Bodges. Could he have been testing the saddle?
Coming from your backgrounds, I can definitely see where it feels like a retreat. Balanced against that, however, is the experience of many who go from not riding or only riding on neighborhood streets or designated recreational paths, to also riding on gravel roads that are open to cars. On the whole, I think it's getting more bikes on roads and crucially – creating new cyclists. People who will advocate and vote in favor of transportation options instead of a completely car-centric system. I live near the gravel epicenter (that's probably disputed, but Kansas needs some more things going for it so I will claim it) and the rising popularity of gravel riding has coincided with increases in bike infrastructure locally. There was very little of that in Kansas 15 years ago or so, and that made getting out of town the only place to safely ride (unless you want to just stick to the neighborhood streets. Our arterials are necessary to get anywhere interesting, and those are a nightmare for cycling). Here gravel riding wasn't a retreat from motorists, it was an advance in one of the only places people reasonably could, and it has led to further advances for cycling.
No, I don't think gravel riders have reduced # of riders on roads with cars and I don't think we gravel cyclists have raised a white flag to people in their big effing money-sucking machines.
Not admitting defeat a bike will never beat a car on the road. I bought a road bike 2 years ago to try road riding, I put maybe 100 miles around my development and a little on the road. My area unfortunately has had a lot of bike fatalities way too many stupid and dangerous drivers. So I’m selling road bike and getting a dedicated gravel bike. 😀
Before even watching the video: I'm happy to do gravel riding NOT because of safety issues, but because I enjoy being closer to nature and away from the road. Here in the Netherlands, there's plenty of safe road cycling to be done and yet since I've bought a gravel bike a year ago I have hardly touched my road bike.
I'm based in Central Thailand and blessed that despite living a mile from the main road, I can leave home and be on country roads for hours. Some days, I could count the cars I see on a few hands. The commute is another matter but on the whole, I feel pretty safe. I think the number of motorbikes helps most drivers be aware of 2 wheeled traffic. Long may it last. Also, although there is some gravel, it's disconnected and even worse, pan flat.
For me, it's all about expanding my options when I'm out riding for fun. A gravel bike opens up access to a wider variety of roads and terrain. Something that's more limited on a traditional road bike.
Avoiding the danger of the roads is a big part of it, but for me leisure rides on gravel/dry-mud cross-country are all about being closer to nature. Seeing some wildlife, birds, rabbits, and deer, etc. Also noticing different surfaces and geology – chalk/flint/gravel etc. Going around the edges of fields or on farm tracks and seeing the crops and state of the farming year. Also you get to go past some interesting architecture, ancient water-towers etc. You get better views off-road, less obscured than by roadside hedges. Its the peace and quiet and 'escape'. Also the fun of discovering paths and tracks that are not well documented on maps; learning the lie of the land.
The radiator bicycle rack: BODGE! I once saw a bicycle in a cheap rack with no side support like this radiator. Someone had bumped the bike from the side and bent the rim. This type of rack is typical of something for cyclists that hasn't been designed by a cyclist.
Living in the USA I would never ride on the road. I have had friends injured or killed on the road. American road bike culture is terrible. I wish it was different but it is what it is. I am more of a mountain biker.
It’s a great topic. Quality of cycling infrastructure in UK is so poor and roads are so busy I am sure people are discouraged from cycling (at all) and/or attracted to traffic free riding. Super hard to ride with kids so gravel is great for riding with them but shouldn’t be ‘necessary’. Feel in a very small minority riding in the town with my children.
I also live on the edge of the New Forest (which is great for road and gravel) and started gravel riding more to open up more variety of routes rather than specifically avoid cars. However, I used to do a lot of group road riding but now really don’t enjoy riding in groups on the road…too many cars, constantly singling out and/or being honked at by people in a desperate rush on a Sunday morning. When I am riding with people, I’d much prefer to be off road now.
I also agree with Conor that gravel is more mentally engaging, keeps you out of your own head riding solo.
p.s. if Dan wants a gravel training buddy the wrong side of 40 am often in the NF…currently trying to train for the Traka 360!
Northumberland is brilliant, no need for gravel riding – totally deserted back roads (largely without gates!) even during the day… Tried riding in Surrey once, I'd be an instant gravel convert if I lived there
What is the reason I recover so much better when cycling in Mallorca compared to my home country Finland? I just spent a week in Alcudia cycling over 800 km with over 7000 meters of climbing and my legs were ok. There is no way in hell I could do that at home.
Gates because your through people's property so enjoy your gates…
I prefer gravel roads… As road is easy speed with slicks and I constantly seeing people in my area totally driving on the shoulder which is flagged for bike lane… Not fun
sorry but your hack/bodge approach needs some thought: a man puts a man-bottle on a baby-bottle drying rack and it’s deemed a hack, but a person puts 2 old bikes onto an up-cycled vintage radiator, negating the need for the manufacture and sale of another large clunky object, and it gets a bodge? what are you guys thinking??
I think a large part of why the small roads have got so busy is to do with Google Maps/satnav. These apps seem to be deliberately sending vehicles down smaller roads, presumably following some algorithm built around distance and time but also, perhaps, taking into account other traffic densities. Here in Devon, it also seems to be a major issue, with locals using ratruns to avoid the tourists. Generally, car drivers need to realise they ARE the traffic and just go and sit in their queue that they have caused on the major roads.
No stop signs, traffic lights, road debris and of course distracted drivers. Off road is just so much calmer, with the added plus of nature constantly changing the landscape year round to make the same route different at different times of the year. Tarmac is always the same!
I don't know about 'admitting defeat' but the #1 benefit of gravel riding is certainly the absence of cars, whether that's for safety or noise reasons. Someone who rides gravel is also going to ride road on some of their route, and is more likely to commute to work (not likely gravel), so I don't really see the 'defeat' element, but car avoidance is definitely a major appeal.
I don't find gravel riding to be safer than pavement in my area. People haul ass on them and aren't expecting bicycles. The shoulders are often unrideable. Vision can be limited due to dust. I'll stick to paved country roads or mountain biking off road.
Sadly our local gravel, the laughably named "Family Cycle Trail" in the Forest of Dean is full of MTB bros pelting along flat out. It would be a great place for my 4 year old to learn to ride but honestly our local side roads are safer for her. The cars pass us slower and give us more space.
walking, driving & biking 'round the city, atleast half the car drivers shouldn't be allowed on the road. They play so losely with the lifes of others it's disgusting. Half those cars have no reason to drive in the city anyway, take the train or ride a bike!
We should never admit defeat but generally I have noticed a lot more dangerous driving through drivers speeding to overtake me, and not stopping and rushing towards me across roundabouts which seems to be a new fear tactic. I also drive cars but I believe I have the understanding to give cyclists plenty of space which a lot of people do not share in my experience. Sadly we will never see separation for cyclists on our overcrowded roads in the UK so education and the law will need to step in instead. I also really enjoy gravel cycling but there are not enough places where this can prove your point as we all have to get from A to B.
Yes I ride on gravel to avoid cars for sure. UK cars are just so mean and aggressive. Will go road cycling in Majorca though! The car vibes on the roads there are so much more positive!
yeah when i plan my rides i search for gravel tracks and bridleways to get me off the road as much as i can, even though i would much rather stick to the roads, as its simpler for route planning. Cars are a menace, and it just takes one to spoil your day. i go on a few national speed limit roads, and its terrifying as they come barrelling up at speeds you would do on a motorway.. No thankyou…..
'It's increasingly difficult to find truly quiet roads' you say that, but in my experience it's also very tricky to get consistently quiet off road routes, in terms of other users, walkers and horse riders, PLUS 'gravel' can mean anything! Any width, any depth, any smoothness (or lack off), it's totally inconsistent. We recently cycled National Route 4 from Bristol to Blackfriars, London, and a significant proportion was off road, but it varied from idyllic to hellish, with narrow rubble strewn tracks covered in pedestrians, having to give way all the time or not being able to overtake. Then we hit a really quiet road section…absolute bliss! You could gentle roll, take in the scenery, ride two abreast most of the time, stop at a pub, brilliant! So I would say we should work to make all the small roads connect better for cyclists, this is what I find a constant frustration with our road network, lots of quiet roads end in A roads with no crossings or no quiet road the other side, or no cycle path along the side to get you to the next quiet road. Improve this, and all will be well.
I started cycling on mountain bike, switched to road about 13 years ago. 3 years ago switched primarily to gravel. One of the reasons was definitely traffic avoidance. However, peaceful rides, more varied riding, fun and closeness to nature all play their part in my love of “gravel”. Most of my rides are 20-50% off road, so still hit plenty of tarmac – mainly getting to good bridleways from home in Woking.
Ride (or walk) & hav a pleasant time or an unpleasant one? Not a surprise that ppl want a pleasant time. Busy roads r unpleasant, even for drivers. Go slow.
42 Comments
🚴♂ Do you think the increasing popularity of gravel riding have anything to do with a growing fear of riding on roads? And if so, does more gravel riding somehow mean we’re admitting defeat to motorists? 👀
Dan makes a really good point about satnavs taking people on to roads which really aren't suitable for large cars. Quite often, these are people who don't have particularly good driving skills and are obviously spooked by being on a single track road.
I had a particularly noteworthy experience once when part of the M6 was closed, and drivers were using satnavs to avoid the city where I live. I found myself cycling back along a very narrow road (which is designated as part of the Lancashire Cycleway as it is normally almost devoid of other vehicles) with a huge queue of cars behind me. I would normally allow a single car to pass where the road occasionally widens, but on this occasion, I had to leave them to drive along behind me at 20mph for the two or so miles until I could turn off.
I noticed that Dan Lloyd started stumbling over his words after the cobbled together saddle from Hacks & Bodges. Could he have been testing the saddle?
"Best of both worlds" sums it up.
Coming from your backgrounds, I can definitely see where it feels like a retreat. Balanced against that, however, is the experience of many who go from not riding or only riding on neighborhood streets or designated recreational paths, to also riding on gravel roads that are open to cars. On the whole, I think it's getting more bikes on roads and crucially – creating new cyclists. People who will advocate and vote in favor of transportation options instead of a completely car-centric system.
I live near the gravel epicenter (that's probably disputed, but Kansas needs some more things going for it so I will claim it) and the rising popularity of gravel riding has coincided with increases in bike infrastructure locally. There was very little of that in Kansas 15 years ago or so, and that made getting out of town the only place to safely ride (unless you want to just stick to the neighborhood streets. Our arterials are necessary to get anywhere interesting, and those are a nightmare for cycling). Here gravel riding wasn't a retreat from motorists, it was an advance in one of the only places people reasonably could, and it has led to further advances for cycling.
With the ongoing lack of road maintenance, riding on the road is increasingly like riding on gravel anyway…
No, I don't think gravel riders have reduced # of riders on roads with cars and I don't think we gravel cyclists have raised a white flag to people in their big effing money-sucking machines.
Not admitting defeat a bike will never beat a car on the road. I bought a road bike 2 years ago to try road riding, I put maybe 100 miles around my development and a little on the road. My area unfortunately has had a lot of bike fatalities way too many stupid and dangerous drivers. So I’m selling road bike and getting a dedicated gravel bike. 😀
Lolol when you said foot Ball i though American football ball not soccer lolol
Before even watching the video: I'm happy to do gravel riding NOT because of safety issues, but because I enjoy being closer to nature and away from the road.
Here in the Netherlands, there's plenty of safe road cycling to be done and yet since I've bought a gravel bike a year ago I have hardly touched my road bike.
I'm based in Central Thailand and blessed that despite living a mile from the main road, I can leave home and be on country roads for hours. Some days, I could count the cars I see on a few hands. The commute is another matter but on the whole, I feel pretty safe. I think the number of motorbikes helps most drivers be aware of 2 wheeled traffic. Long may it last. Also, although there is some gravel, it's disconnected and even worse, pan flat.
For me, it's all about expanding my options when I'm out riding for fun. A gravel bike opens up access to a wider variety of roads and terrain. Something that's more limited on a traditional road bike.
Avoiding the danger of the roads is a big part of it, but for me leisure rides on gravel/dry-mud cross-country are all about being closer to nature. Seeing some wildlife, birds, rabbits, and deer, etc. Also noticing different surfaces and geology – chalk/flint/gravel etc. Going around the edges of fields or on farm tracks and seeing the crops and state of the farming year. Also you get to go past some interesting architecture, ancient water-towers etc. You get better views off-road, less obscured than by roadside hedges. Its the peace and quiet and 'escape'. Also the fun of discovering paths and tracks that are not well documented on maps; learning the lie of the land.
The radiator bicycle rack: BODGE! I once saw a bicycle in a cheap rack with no side support like this radiator. Someone had bumped the bike from the side and bent the rim. This type of rack is typical of something for cyclists that hasn't been designed by a cyclist.
Living in the USA I would never ride on the road. I have had friends injured or killed on the road. American road bike culture is terrible. I wish it was different but it is what it is. I am more of a mountain biker.
It’s a great topic. Quality of cycling infrastructure in UK is so poor and roads are so busy I am sure people are discouraged from cycling (at all) and/or attracted to traffic free riding. Super hard to ride with kids so gravel is great for riding with them but shouldn’t be ‘necessary’. Feel in a very small minority riding in the town with my children.
I also live on the edge of the New Forest (which is great for road and gravel) and started gravel riding more to open up more variety of routes rather than specifically avoid cars. However, I used to do a lot of group road riding but now really don’t enjoy riding in groups on the road…too many cars, constantly singling out and/or being honked at by people in a desperate rush on a Sunday morning. When I am riding with people, I’d much prefer to be off road now.
I also agree with Conor that gravel is more mentally engaging, keeps you out of your own head riding solo.
p.s. if Dan wants a gravel training buddy the wrong side of 40 am often in the NF…currently trying to train for the Traka 360!
Northumberland is brilliant, no need for gravel riding – totally deserted back roads (largely without gates!) even during the day… Tried riding in Surrey once, I'd be an instant gravel convert if I lived there
#caption – Now I understand what the 💦 emoji means.
What is the reason I recover so much better when cycling in Mallorca compared to my home country Finland? I just spent a week in Alcudia cycling over 800 km with over 7000 meters of climbing and my legs were ok. There is no way in hell I could do that at home.
#caption competition:- Too much excitement on the podium induced premature Cork ejection.
Some people come to Paris Roubaix to see the presentation of the teams. I came to see Dan, Si, Hank and Alex!
I dont find commuting by bike stressful: most drivers are actually ok.
Gates because your through people's property so enjoy your gates…
I prefer gravel roads… As road is easy speed with slicks and I constantly seeing people in my area totally driving on the shoulder which is flagged for bike lane… Not fun
I plan my route, expecially my commute, to include some form of Gravel for the pure reason of safety (and fun).
I run away from cars as the devil runs from the cross. Maybe in portuguese sounds better 😊
Yes traffic free gravel, every time
sorry but your hack/bodge approach needs some thought: a man puts a man-bottle on a baby-bottle drying rack and it’s deemed a hack, but a person puts 2 old bikes onto an up-cycled vintage radiator, negating the need for the manufacture and sale of another large clunky object, and it gets a bodge? what are you guys thinking??
I think a large part of why the small roads have got so busy is to do with Google Maps/satnav. These apps seem to be deliberately sending vehicles down smaller roads, presumably following some algorithm built around distance and time but also, perhaps, taking into account other traffic densities. Here in Devon, it also seems to be a major issue, with locals using ratruns to avoid the tourists. Generally, car drivers need to realise they ARE the traffic and just go and sit in their queue that they have caused on the major roads.
I have preferred riding off road since I was a small child. The only roads I avoid are major A roads.
No stop signs, traffic lights, road debris and of course distracted drivers. Off road is just so much calmer, with the added plus of nature constantly changing the landscape year round to make the same route different at different times of the year.
Tarmac is always the same!
❤
I don't know about 'admitting defeat' but the #1 benefit of gravel riding is certainly the absence of cars, whether that's for safety or noise reasons. Someone who rides gravel is also going to ride road on some of their route, and is more likely to commute to work (not likely gravel), so I don't really see the 'defeat' element, but car avoidance is definitely a major appeal.
I don't find gravel riding to be safer than pavement in my area. People haul ass on them and aren't expecting bicycles. The shoulders are often unrideable. Vision can be limited due to dust. I'll stick to paved country roads or mountain biking off road.
Sadly our local gravel, the laughably named "Family Cycle Trail" in the Forest of Dean is full of MTB bros pelting along flat out. It would be a great place for my 4 year old to learn to ride but honestly our local side roads are safer for her. The cars pass us slower and give us more space.
walking, driving & biking 'round the city, atleast half the car drivers shouldn't be allowed on the road.
They play so losely with the lifes of others it's disgusting. Half those cars have no reason to drive in the city anyway, take the train or ride a bike!
We should never admit defeat but generally I have noticed a lot more dangerous driving through drivers speeding to overtake me, and not stopping and rushing towards me across roundabouts which seems
to be a new fear tactic. I also drive cars but I believe I have the understanding to give cyclists plenty of space which a lot of people do not share in my experience. Sadly we will never see separation for cyclists on our overcrowded roads in the UK so education and the law will need to step in instead. I also really enjoy gravel cycling but there are not enough places where this can prove your point as we all have to get from A to B.
Get away from cars? On behalf of cars, please do. Cyclists are pedestrians on wheels and a total pain in the bum for people who drive.
Yes I ride on gravel to avoid cars for sure. UK cars are just so mean and aggressive. Will go road cycling in Majorca though! The car vibes on the roads there are so much more positive!
yeah when i plan my rides i search for gravel tracks and bridleways to get me off the road as much as i can, even though i would much rather stick to the roads, as its simpler for route planning. Cars are a menace, and it just takes one to spoil your day. i go on a few national speed limit roads, and its terrifying as they come barrelling up at speeds you would do on a motorway.. No thankyou…..
'It's increasingly difficult to find truly quiet roads' you say that, but in my experience it's also very tricky to get consistently quiet off road routes, in terms of other users, walkers and horse riders, PLUS 'gravel' can mean anything! Any width, any depth, any smoothness (or lack off), it's totally inconsistent. We recently cycled National Route 4 from Bristol to Blackfriars, London, and a significant proportion was off road, but it varied from idyllic to hellish, with narrow rubble strewn tracks covered in pedestrians, having to give way all the time or not being able to overtake. Then we hit a really quiet road section…absolute bliss! You could gentle roll, take in the scenery, ride two abreast most of the time, stop at a pub, brilliant! So I would say we should work to make all the small roads connect better for cyclists, this is what I find a constant frustration with our road network, lots of quiet roads end in A roads with no crossings or no quiet road the other side, or no cycle path along the side to get you to the next quiet road. Improve this, and all will be well.
I started cycling on mountain bike, switched to road about 13 years ago. 3 years ago switched primarily to gravel. One of the reasons was definitely traffic avoidance. However, peaceful rides, more varied riding, fun and closeness to nature all play their part in my love of “gravel”. Most of my rides are 20-50% off road, so still hit plenty of tarmac – mainly getting to good bridleways from home in Woking.
Ride (or walk) & hav a pleasant time or an unpleasant one? Not a surprise that ppl want a pleasant time. Busy roads r unpleasant, even for drivers. Go slow.